-- i think you can do both. i think romney is doing both and romney -- watching him right now is watching him go through the different phases of romney, 509s shades of romney shall we say. >> that's exactly what they have thought. so people have talked about this a lot. the notion of they were kind of a fork in the road in the spring. do we want to run against him as a flip flopping phony or run against -- coreless, their pitch before, or do we want to cast him as a right wing radical. they seemed to and did make a decision to do right wing radical and one on throughout. i talked about david plouffe about this in may and he said we're going do both when we have to. we're going to say mitt romney there he goes trying to flip flop, coreless a phony, but not forget where he actually is, and then this is -- we're going to keep trying to pin him back to these positions he's taken. i think they have been horrible since the debate, the obama campaign. they are -- jon ward understates the degree to which they are knocked off guard and they are flailing right now and the stuff they're say

between mitt romney and -- >> he likes to have it both places. >> but the big bird thing points to a larger i think willful disavowel of struggle in this country. >> and struggle and structure. you're on the titanic, i'm going to give you a voucher, a life -- you know a life boat so to speak or what he called life jacket to go on, but the ship is sinking. you plug the hole. the structural problems mitt romney seems to have no comprehension of, that they're beyond -- if i put a size 10 feet -- foot in a size 8 shoe there are structural problems. i have a choice to choose from. >> tell me about it. >> okay. so my high heels hurt me as well. the reality is that to make the argument about vouchers is really to talk about a philosophical difference but the philosophical difference rests on the convenience and luxury to say we're going to give a voucher to some to make the choice, that misunderstands the fact that so many other people don't have choices and the people that are left behind are forced into a situation over which they exercise no control. so the illusion of control by giving